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Topic: RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Topic: RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

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Wes
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 34

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/29/2010 9:35:36 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Wes wrote:

. . . Some of the BCS names mentioned on here like Syracuse and Northwestern are not going to travel to Peden Stadium. . .

Hmm . . . yeah right! Northwestern signed a 1-1 with us in recent memory, which WE abrogated. Syracuse has signed a 1-1 with Oxford Tech and, I believe Toledo. Where do you come up with this stuff? Usually I like what you have to say, Wes, but I think in this thread you are stretching things to make a point. Having a 1-1 with the Orange is not mutually exclusive with having a 1-1 with Navy. I'd be in favor of both, and as I stated previously I would probably go to both the home and the away Navy game.

I was talking traveling meaning bringing a large contingent of fans. I can see 4-5k Navy and/or Marshall fans traveling to Peden and adding above average interest for Bobcat fans. Ideal non-con schedule for Ohio would be a rotation of #1 OSU, PSU, VT, TN, #2 Navy, #3 Marshall, #4 CAA/MEAC/Southern FCS team. This way we'd have either Marshall or Navy in the house for a nice traveling crowd early to set the tone for the remainder of the football season. That is not too far from what we play now, subbing out North Texas and New Mexico St for Navy.

Bobcat Sustainability

2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 137

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/29/2010 10:19:51 PM

OK, Wes, that makes sense. I probably read your post too fast, and forgot what you had said earlier in the thread. My bad. I think 1-1 with the likes of Indiana and WVU (that'll be a hard sell in Morgantown) would be ideal in terms of bringing in the crowds. Pitt would also be great and doable -- but not while Pederson is still the AD. Louisville is also a possibility for bringing lots of visiting fans to Peden. Lots of doable stuff here. I, for one, will be almost as disappointed as BL if we have a banner season this fall and some changes aren't made to the schedule for upcoming years. Hey, maybe since Oxford Tech sucks so much, we could take their place in the annual home and home series with Zinnzinati.

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

"If you can dream it, you can do it!"
-- Jim Schaus, Ohio AD

Wes
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 34

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/29/2010 10:39:28 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

I don't perceive Indiana is much of an upgrade over North Texas or WVU over Marshall. Forget the Midwest schools, go 2 for 1 and bring in Oklahoma, Florida, Oregon, Clemson, Virginia Tech. 1 Large player in the stadium every year. Tell Ohio State they owe us one game in Peden for every game we've played at the Horeshoe.

Bobcat Sustainability

2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

ts1227
General User

Member Since: 2/28/2006
Location: Salem, OH
Post Count: 9

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/29/2010 11:21:57 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

A question-Has Miami getting beat to death with their recent tough schedules helped their fan base or support? (Clue-check out their attendence)
Getting the crap beat out of you might be semi-interesting to some, but I'd rather build a program differently.

To be fair with this point, Miami also loses to most every team in the MAC anymore as well. It's not like they were just getting smoked by the big dogs.

Last Edited: 7/29/2010 11:22:58 PM by ts1227

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Post Count: 49

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 12:52:04 AM

Wes wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Yeah good luck with that. Cincinnati is finishing their 2 for 1 with Oklahoma, and their in a BCS conference. I dont know how they even swung that to tell you the truth.

M.Ed. in Sports Adminstration - Xavier 2010
B.S. in Sports Management - OHIO 2006

"It felt really good. I just hate that yellow jersey ... hate it. But, we have to have them on for our safety. Luckily, September 4th rolls around and we won't have to wear those jerseys anymore." - Ohio QB Phillip Bates

bobcat28
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: United States
Post Count: 24

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 9:10:54 AM

Wes wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

2 for 1 meaning we get 2 home games in peden and go on the road once right?

Cat4ever
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Member Since: 12/29/2007
Location: Oakland, FL
Post Count: 60

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 9:12:06 AM

Flomo-genized wrote:

...Winning your conference is only a significant accomplishment when you play in what is viewed to be a competitive league, and unfortunately the MAC is a second-rate conference. Therefore, if you really want to grab the attention of current students (and alumni for that matter), you need to play - and defeat - quality OOC competition. And to really reach the current student body in significant numbers, some of those games need to be at home...

Flomo, most of your points were wonderful and spectacularly presented. But I need to step into this point and ask a question: Would you have made this statement after the 2003 MAC season?

There is no doubt that MAC teams have not generally represented themselves as powers when they play outside the conference the last several years. But the question becomes, is that merely the natural order of things?

If anyone concludes that to be the case, then it's silly to be having this discussion: You'd have to schedule and beat three Top 15 teams OOC to stand a chance of being regarded as anything but a joke yourself!

I'm not close enough to any of the MAC schools to have a clue about the level of administrative support for athletics. What I will say is this: If there is support, and if that support leads to landing the right people in athletic leadership roles, then teams become successful. Will the MAC ever be "BCS caliber"? It's stupid to utter the word "never," so I'll answer with "probably not." But that does not preclude either individual schools or the conference as a whole from being "BCS-competitive." 2003 is a case study.

And with the 85-scholarship limit, there is lots of opportunity for success in surprising places.

I'll close this with a question: Right now, would you rather be cheering for OUr team or Indiana, Washington State, Syracuse or Vanderbilt?

The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact.
If this statement is true, it is also false.
--Dr. Donald Horning, circa 1965

Flomo-genized
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 48

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 9:49:49 AM

If we had been able to maintain or surpass the success of 2003 in subsequent seasons then I agree this would be a different discussion. If the MAC were positioned like the MWC is currently, with the conference champion regularly qualifying for a BCS bowl game, then I believe students and alumni would be more supportive of the program. Unfortunately, though, the MAC failed to build upon its success in 2003. In fact, we took multiple steps backward. Therefore, when one looks back over the last 30-40 years of MAC football, 2003 is pretty clearly an anomoly.

I don't think that you have to beat 3-4 BCS teams every year to make a splash. I think that if we were regularly winning conference titles, and beating 1-2 BCS level teams per season, then our success would seem more legitimate to the average fan that grew up watching only BCS level football. In contrast, if we win the MAC anytime over the next few seasons, but lose to the one legitimate BCS team we face, many fans will simply view us as a pretty good team at the little league level. I do not believe that will create the type of lasting, donating fan support we need.

Put differently, there is a reason that the Pitt game is still talked about so much today; it was the type of game that ignites a fan base. Yes it was an unusual combination of factors that won't be duplicated regularly. But even a game 80% as memorable as the Pitt game would do light years more to engender lasting fan excitement and support than will the games again North Texas, Louisiana-Lafayette, and Eastern Illinois. And building a supportive, donating fan base should be the #1 priority for us right now, given the budget woes.

Cat4ever
General User

Member Since: 12/29/2007
Location: Oakland, FL
Post Count: 60

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 11:03:41 AM

Good thoughts, Flomo. But I'd still rather be rooting for OUr team right not than Indiana, Washington State, Syracuse or Vanderbilt!

The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact.
If this statement is true, it is also false.
--Dr. Donald Horning, circa 1965

Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 4

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 12:12:04 PM

I don't get why some in our fanbase are willing to deem some teams with labels like "sucks," "crappy," or "a joke." It seems to me, unless your a consistently top 25 team, you're a "crappy" team yourself. Case in point is the forever ridiculed N Texas team that we BARELY beat.

Maybe the talent difference between the N Texas' of the world and the lower level BCS teams is not all that different. Do we risk less in losing to Indiana than to Lou Laf?

Flomo-genized
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 48

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 12:22:23 PM

It's simply an issue of perception among the masses. Rightly or wrongly, wins against North Texas and Eastern Illinois simply do not excite the causal fan. Those type of wins do not convey a sense that we are building a big-time program, one that might be worth following over (or in addition to) the Suckeyes.

Cat4ever
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Member Since: 12/29/2007
Location: Oakland, FL
Post Count: 60

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 12:30:09 PM

Robert Fox wrote:

Robert, you are correct in your thinking about the razor-thin margins separating most (and I would dare say, "the majority") of D-1 teams. When I mention Indiana (or Washington State, Vanderbilt or Syracuse) my point is that within the context of their schedules (each a BCS conference) they currently are not very likely to give their fans much to cheer about. I honestly don't have a clue how well OUr team would do were we challenged by any of those schedules. But I do know this: I'd rather be rooting for Green & White right now than any of those aforementioned teams.

Personally, I don't think any team on our schedule is "a joke." After decades removed from an active interest in Ohio football, I couldn't resist becoming interested when Frank Solich became coach. And I attended a game for only the second time since the 1960s when we played Southern Mississippi in the GMAC Bowl. Subsequently, I've been in the stands when the 'Cats played Wyoming, VMI, Connecticut and Northwestern. Contrary to the perspective of some others on this board, my favorite game was against VMI. The others were losses. None was lopsided. We weren't humiliated. But the fact is, we lost. That, Robert, is what "sucks"!

The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact.
If this statement is true, it is also false.
--Dr. Donald Horning, circa 1965

Robert Fox
General User

Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 4

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/30/2010 12:31:19 PM

Exactly. And it's that perception that BL is using to prop up his point. But in making his point, he also resorts to labeling teams "crappy," implying that OU is a clearly better team.

In my opinion, BL's better tactic is illustrated by my question above: What is more damaging to OU's football reputation:
1. A loss to Indiana
2. A loss to Lou Laf

OrlandoCat
General User

Member Since: 3/15/2005
Post Count: 24

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/31/2010 4:09:13 AM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I realize we're looking for even bigger programs than Pitt (when they were down) and UConn, but I'm not sure Peden would sell out for a team like Miami (FL) unless tickets were reduced. And I certainly don't think we'd gain more than a handful of extra season ticket holders by having a team like that on the schedule.

The problem is most people really don't care who Ohio plays. I'd love to see a team like Miami come to Peden. I'd probably go out of my way to go to that game. I just don't think that many other people would.

You do realize that when Pitt came in they were ranked the week prior (before losing to ND) and it set the single game attendance record a Peden right?

Never mind the fact that Miami was ranked as high as 9th last year before ending at 19th. Yea, who'd want to see that crap shoot in Peden.

Put it on a Friay night again I'll bet you anything we have a new attendance record again.

Simple formula:

Name Team + ESPN Coverage = Sell Out

You are right though, nobody really cares about Uconn.

Oldcat
General User

Member Since: 7/18/2010
Post Count: 12

Status: Offline

RE: LOVE theory and rationale...

Posted: 7/31/2010 2:05:20 PM

A lot of good points have been made but the reasons we struggle to obtain marquee opponents as well as players boils down to three things...location, location, and location. SE Ohio remains one of the best kept secrets ever but OU is miles away from any major metropolitan area that would provide a larger fan base for season ticket sales, expanded press coverage, and of course, the transportation (airport) issue. Nothing new there as it has been reported here time and time again over the years. I don't consider myself a long suffering fan (forty plus years routing for the Bobcats) settling for mediocrity. I'm just a happy fan enjoying the recent successes.

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